Have just witnessed a wonderful exchange between Andy Duncan, the Chief Executive at Channel 4, sitting alongside Mark Browning, the Programme Director at Heart Radio and a group of BBC types sitting in the audience.

They'd both had a good half hour each to explain to us the changes in radio and television - the explosion of new stations tailored to the needs of subgroups, the new role of ' the consumer' as the one who sets the agenda and plots the course and the media as those who merely respond to changing needs and tastes. Marketing in such an environment becomes an appeal to a small group - a gathering together of like minded people into a tribe - and not a matter of convincing folks to tune into a 'one size fits all' programme schedule.

One of the media type working for the Church of England asks why - given that 70% of the general population expressed an 'interest' in 'spiritual issues' there was such a paucity of such programming on commercial radio and television? Could it be that only 20% of those involved in professional media production had a similar 'interest'. The answer was that such programs had been tried and had received low ratings - Priest Idol was one example given by the Director of Channel 4

Another C of E clergyman involved in commercial radio pipes in that he considers it his job to find the interesting angle on a religious theme - to ferret out the people who can speak in such a way as to animate a subject. If it's simply a matter of responding to 'what is the case' then we should simply be broadcasting pornography since it has a market which can be demonstrated. If a religious program is poorly rated it may be the program which is at fault and not the audience which is disinterested. Many rumbles of assent from the audience. BBC Manchester man jumps the queue and suggests loudly to the two hapless guests at the front that it's their job to find a stimulating way of responding to the market and that their disinterest in the subject is more notable than the market

At which point the two speakers make the major error of the morning and state that the BBC hasn't fared any better in their religious programming - something which the BBC religious programmers in the audience - numerous and all sitting in a row - take great exception to and begin to list off the BBC shows - Monastery, Son of God - along with others in the process of sale to BBC 1 and 2 which they believed had more than adequately linked the 'interest' in spiritual matters.